Hello everyone, my name is Vinci Gary, I'm the president of a web design company named distinct. Since 2013. We've worked with over 400 small businesses to improve their online presence through web design, SEO and marketing. I'm also the host of the Small Business Big Ideas podcast and Facebook Group. Today I'm joined by Ken idle and Tiffany deer. Tiffany holds two degrees in business and is both a senior professional in HR, and an enrolled agent. She works closely with local businesses and nonprofits, helping them analyze their profitability, operational spend, and projected tax liability. Ken is a familiar face from our last session. And his his career has included small business creation and ownership. He's been the director of an entrepreneurship center, a faculty member of community or other community college and leadership in the nonprofit and community development organizations in this community. I'm going to first bring Tiffany up to say a few words and Oberyn cons well. Hey, Tony. Hey, Vince, thanks so much. Yeah, have you here. I'm excited to have the opportunity to be here. Absolutely. Is there anything you want to tell anyone? Listen, before we get started? I'm Tiffany here. As Vince said, I have been in the tax preparation industry for just about five years. And prior to that I spent 10 years in human resources. I currently am the owner of deer accounting here in Greencastle, Indiana. Awesome. And before we get started, someone does want to send you an email, what's the best way for them to reach you? Great, you can reach me at Tiffany at Deer accounting.com Perfect. Let's bring Ken in. Again. Welcome Tiffany Glad to have you. i My background has been said is in retail business, probably 50 years in retail. But in addition to that teaching at a community college, as well as doing consulting for small business startups. I just want to take a minute to talk about what we talked about last week to try to bring those who weren't around up to speed. And then kind of turn it over to Tiffany for the first section of what we're going to do here. We talked a lot about business statements. We talked about balance sheets, or asset and liability statements. We talked about earning statements which some people call profit and loss statements, and how you need accurate statements to properly run your business not just to know where you are, but actually with forecasting and experience where you're going. And so Tiffany is going to talk a little bit about common pitfalls that she sees in her accounting practice. In terms of what what you all need to know, after you open your doors, usually there's a lot of planning goes in before, and a lot of excitement. But sometimes there's these realities that come along after you kind of get launched, so to speak. So Tiffany wants you to talk about some of the common pitfalls that you see. Sure can, unfortunately, a lot, a lot of what I'm about to tell you isn't exactly as exciting as it is to start a business from the ground up. But that said, it is just as important to focus on a few of these items that I will bring to your attention. Some individuals that have just started a business may not have thought about these areas. And just when you don't think about these areas, it really it could expose your startup business to risk. One of the very first things that I always encourage clients, or new entrepreneurs to do is to start up and open a business checking account. I know can you touched on this last week. But I want to reiterate, it's so important to separate the transactions between the business and your personal. And when you mix those two, it becomes very complicated and challenging to determine what is the expense of the business? What are you paying yourself? When all of those funds are in the same pot? It's next to impossible to reconcile that and to determine what your expenses are for your business as well as the revenue coming in. This also helps at tax time when your tax preparer might ask you to provide a summary of what you what your business brought in as far as revenue for the prior year. On that point, I can't stress enough that it's important to find a good banker. Build a relationship with somebody local with somebody that understands the community. Maybe not the direct industry that you're in, but certainly the area that you're located. Build a relationship With somebody reliable and somebody that can follow you along as you grow, as you might need a loan or even just about somebody, bounce some things off of them. So find a good banker. It's just as important as finding a good accountant, is it really is I've been blessed to work I work with PNC here in town. But you know, on the local level, everyone in the bank knows me they know what's going on in our account, it's been so beneficial, even though it's a national brand, that local touch has been so beneficial. And you don't have to catch anybody up. When you do come in the doors. They know you they know your business, even probably know a little bit about your industry. And you can't put a price on that. Absolutely. The next thing I encourage entrepreneurs to look for is make sure you have accurate accounting ongoing. This starts from the beginning. It's not impossible, but a very big challenge if you decide to have accurate accounting a year or two in because then there's the challenge of the catch up. You may not be educated enough, or even have a desire to spend that much time looking at your books. So it's important from the very beginning to make sure that your chart of accounts and your accounting is in a good position to grow and to succeed. Make sure that those are the transactions are sorted correctly. Because this allows you to run reports to look at your current trends, what's happening currently in your business, as well as it allows you to do projections to look and see what what do I expect in the near future for my business. The next point is debt. So many times I have clients that say they want to stay away from debt. But I challenge you to think about debt in a way that it's maybe not always bad debt positions you in the market in such a way that you might be able to borrow some money from that local banker and take advantage of some market growth. Maybe you might be able to offer, maybe you have some extra warehouse space. And you might think about offering an alternative product, if you are willing to take on a little bit of debt, you might be able to increase that revenue and see success with that. I do caution you though with debt. And that you it's important to be proactive with it and not reactive. So think about the interest rates that that are available out there. Make sure you shop and are aware of those. And don't find yourself in a position where you're behind on the operational bills. And so you just need to borrow money to catch up with those. I. So I know, Tiffany, you're the expert here. And Ken, you have more experience than me. But I found that the last year or so there's been so many opportunities with Small Business Association lending and COVID relief that it's a really good time to take on that that debt if you want some get to grow your business with a low interest rate. So I'd love to hear both of your takes on that and see if we all agree or if there's a difference between that. I agree with what Tiffany saying completely, that the money you borrow in some way has to relate to how your business grows. And I've been through very high interest rates as well as very low interest rates. I mean, I'm talking 14 15% interest rates. So my general rule is, is that if if that money is borrowed is not making enough additional revenue to at least pay the interest. It's not a good debt. So someplace that money whether you buy a piece of equipment that increases your sales, or you know, you use it to buy additional inventory that you're going to sell somewhere that expense, that interest expense has to come back through revenue. And that's kind of been my rule of thumb on. Yeah. Right. And that goes back to the accurate accounting, because in order to determine if that new piece of equipment will pay back more than the interest, you really need to have a good constant knowledge of your business plan. Absolutely. And I don't want to take us down a rabbit hole so we don't have to go here but knowing your ratio is something that I've recently learned over the last 12 months or so and that's been really helpful for me So we don't want to go that we can go on to our next subject. But last week, I did not hear your comment and what what rabbit hole was this? Oh, managing your ratios, understanding duration. So I brought this up last time you would think they're paying me. But managing by the numbers really helped me understand my different shows and how that's important for my business. So we don't have to go down that we can move on to reserves. But I just wanted to drop that again. Well, let me give us a segue into reserves. Because one of the things since I tend to be the more aged person here, if you go back many years, and much farther than me, you know, it used to be business was financed, it was all equity financing. If you wanted to expand a business you took on a partner, or you saved until you had the money to expand your business, then all of a sudden, things changed. And we became a debt expansion economy. And that's where we are now. And so it really is very different than it used to be. And some use properly as we're talking here, that's great. But it's become awfully easy to find yourself, way too far away. And that money that was saved to expand is what Tiffany's kind of talk about next, which is reserves. And if you think about that, reserve, this is why reserves are important. So Tiffany, exactly. I see it. Unfortunately, too often that a business can be very successful, even profitable at the end of the year. But they're really one endemic away from having to close the doors. And this can happen to a small business or even a large business. It really doesn't discriminate. It's so important. I say the rule of thumb to have between three and six months of expenses. Should the revenue stop coming in? Should we experience something catastrophic? God forbid we have another pandemic. It's so important to be able to take the time to plan and how will you continue to keep your doors open? And how will you continue to service your customers? If you don't have a cash reserve? And how I guess that leads into how do you build that if you don't have it, I say it just takes some discipline, set up a monthly payment, just like it's a fixed a fixed expense. transfer that money, you can even set it up to auto transfer every month so that you don't even have to worry about it. And before you know it, you'll have that cash balance for that emergency fund. And then another piece to that is if you do dip into that it's so important to pay it back. Don't fall into the habit of I need to grab $500 here. And then Oh well, I'll just add this to my tab. Be sure to put it back every time you take money out. That should be an account that you should try and leave it on touched on your lawn. That makes a big difference for me having a recurring deposit going into a savings account for reserve. Like you said, it just feels like another expense even though not spending it mentally that helps me a lot. Exactly. Another common pitfall that I've seen is aging accounts receivable. Accounts receivable is going to happen. You have people that you provide services for and then they pay you. I think you should be thoughtful in how you structure those payment arrangements. If you are in an industry that you require a lot of the payment upfront so that you can purchase the materials for the product or service, then it doesn't make sense to have a 60 day payment term. Make sure your accounts receivable payment arrangements match up with what you realistically can function with. And on the same token, make sure you negotiate good payment terms for your for your accounts payable as well. That's just as equally important. That was a sorry to keep interrupting but that was something Ken had taught me a few years ago. And I my net terms were based on QuickBooks defaults. I think they were just net 30 Like said in the simple change of changing that the net 15 Just gives you So much cash to work with that you can really guide the ship better. So that was a huge revelation for me. And I'm pretty sure I mentioned that a lot, you change your receivables or give people an incentive for paying sooner. So simple but a game changer. Something totally contrary, yeah, right. Yeah. In our in our, in our Flower Shop Business, we were daily invoicing, the day, the day, the day it was delivered, the next day the invoice went out. So, you know, obviously, you have a one time when you start that you have a one time immediate cash flow. But you can identify those bills that are past due before they get really old. Because we did generate statements at the end of 30 days. However, my billing daily, we had a constant cash flow, and we almost became a cash business because of that, especially when you started seeing more credit cards because you got paid immediately with the credit card. So I whether it's definitely required deposits on large or too large jobs that will cover your purchases that you have to make to get started draws whatever you want to call them. It's just really, really important that you guard that because your factor business, absolutely. For the inventory. I've seen this. I personally provide services for less clients that have inventory, but I can still speak to it, and that it's important that you make sure that the inventory you're purchasing and retaining is selling. I know that sounds really common sense. But it's unfortunately, something I've seen that inventory is not reviewed as frequently as it should be. If you have inventory in and I don't know, Ken, maybe you have a rule of thumb for this. But if you have it sit for X number of months, maybe you should consider changing how you purchase. Okay, so there's several things about this, I think definitely one is is yes, stale inventory, particularly if you're in a business that has trans is just something that if it's if it's not selling, put it on sailing and and move it out, because you need that cash to do something else. So that's the first rule. Second level, we we use what we call conservative risk. And so we would go to a Gift Show and we would buy an AI that we thought would be really good might sell here, we'd bring it and put it in a hotspot for display, and it didn't sell. But if it did sell, we'd reorder more than the minimum order. But we never ordered the first thing we first order was never more than the minimum, because we wanted to test the market before we did it. So that's one other way you can manage that. One of the other things that's interesting about our business, which was a retail flower shop, and gift store, is that the way you will you market fresh product, because it turns if you don't sell fresh product in three or four days, you're not going to sell it, you're going to adopt it. But the gift items just they sat there, and they just sat there and so you had$1,000 in gifts. And you may only be able to turn that over once every six months, because you didn't sell them. Yet with a fresh product, whether it's a hamburger or a rose, you sell that. And so you've got that same $1,000. But if you're selling it, you can take that$1,000 and operate on that for a whole month or whatever your terms are. So it's really important to know how your inventory works and what its personality is. And you also have different markups on all those things. And so when you get into mixed margin businesses, there's all sorts of things that you have to learn. But if it doesn't sell, get rid of it, sell it, donate it, just get it out of the store, and stay knowledgeable, like you said, make sure you know, sometimes I get frustrated that I can't always put a specific cost to a service, right one website might be a little take more hours than another website, it frustrates me and then I think about people who have to manage inventory. And I just put my hands up like okay, I don't want to do that. That's great, especially, you know, like a restaurant and managing inventory that's going to go bad. Yeah, I can't I couldn't do it. I can't even imagine doing it. So I'll deal with my issues. Right. I agree. So I think you'll Tiffany's talking a lot talking about now things that you have to pay attention to, or you can get yourself in trouble. Yeah. And and how do you how do you want to what are the signals for that? You know, Tiffany talked about cash flow. That's this critical because if you don't come around is payroll time. And you have people working for you and They depend on you to provide them or pay a paycheck to buy their groceries to pay their rent, and you don't have it. And so that's a real red flag, if you don't have the reserves to be able to take and and pay payroll as an example, the other one is an inability to pay taxes. And Tiffany, you want to talk about those tax surprises? You see? i Yes, they happen. Too often, what I see is a client might have reviewed, their earning statement will say Profit Loss, for example. And it shows the bottom line of, for example, $40,000. Net. Unfortunately, they don't have that same will not unfortunately, it just is the nature of it, they don't have that $40,000 sitting in their bank account. for variety of reasons, it could be that they took owner draws, it could be that they've made payments toward debt. But what then surprises business owners is that the IRS taxes on the revenue minus expenses, which is profit, it doesn't tax on the bank account balance. So even if you don't have the cash in the bank account on December 31, like maybe the p&l suggests, you still are responsible to pay the income tax on the income that you earned. So unfortunately, that's can be confusing when you're when you're really in it day to day. But it's just something that I think people need to hear and to hear into here and to hear repeatedly. So I think the thing I touched on last week, possibly, but it was payroll taxes. Yeah. And what I've seen in the businesses that I've worked with, is the realization that at the end of every quarter, the IRS, and the state is going to come to you and say we want our sales tax that you've collected. And we also want the Social Security match that you owe on what your employees have paid. Plus some other little hidden things that we all kind of here know about. And if you don't set that aside, in a separate payroll account, you are very much in in danger of having that money, had not having those dollars, because you thought you had money in your checking account when you actually you did not. And so it's just very important. Tiffany talked about having a separate checking account, from your personal business, if it is also very important, when you write your payroll to put all of the money, all the payroll taxes in a different account. One of the advantages of having a payroll service, not that small businesses can necessarily do that. But it's just really important to put money aside in what kind of savings however you do that to make sure when the government comes calling that you have their money, because you don't want to mess with the government. They're going to get their money, that's for sure to get their money. So that's that's one that I've seen numerous times. And it's very hard. It's very hard to get back from. Absolutely. So how do you avoid these troubles? Definitely. What do you how do you what's your recommendation to people in terms of how they how they avoid this? I think I think the cash reserves is huge, which then leads to being disciplined. Have patience with yourself. It's not easy to set money aside, especially when you have bills coming in. But I think my biggest piece of advice is to prioritize setting up a cash reserve. Another piece that I could suggest is to continue to stay aware of the expenses that you have, that you're going to have and that you have already had. It's invaluable to be able to mentally have an ongoing knowledge of where your bank account is going, on a minimum a weekly basis. For that time, as Ken just said, when the IRS sends you a bill, it's important to be able to have that into and those things are things that it's reasonable to plan for that Yeah, talk about, excuse me. I was gonna say Vince mentioned the like the ratio, I wanted to point out. One important ratio with respect to this topic is the assets liability. That's a ratio that you generally find to be pretty low. If a if a, it's a good sign, generally, it's a good sign if that ratio is low. Now, if your company is rapidly growing, if you are trying to encourage growth, and you've recently taken out debt, obviously, that ratio will be slightly higher. But what that is, it's how much the company, how much of your company's assets are made of liabilities? Go ahead. Yes, yeah. Yeah, that's that's important. If you're a retail business, that has merchandisers, ratios that tell you how your inventory relates to your sales percentages. But those current ratios, the bank, the bank looks at specifically, how strong you are in relation to assets and liabilities, if they want to loan you won't borrow more money. And they also will look at your cash flow. And we didn't really talk about that last week, but that's another financial statement, that will kind of tell everybody where your money's going. And that's just a really important thing to do. So I think, you know, Tiffany, your your comment about discipline, I think is one of those things, that it's just so hard. You know, you get caught up in your business, you you have bills to pay you, you have, you know, or even when things are going really well, you know, oh, yeah, I really like to do that. Let's just sponsor this event or sponsor that event. And all of a sudden, you have no cash because you've sponsored everything. I'm a great marketing person, don't get me wrong, that marketing is just like everything else, there has to be a return on that. Yeah. And so how do you do that and just can't get caught up. And some of the things that you can emotionally, when it comes to operating your business, whether it's a product you like, and you really want to bring in the store, because you want to have so that your house, but it doesn't sell. So you shouldn't do that. And so there's a reason to do that. One of things I learned is to buy things I didn't like, but they sold. And so if they sold, it would make no difference. Right in like a great rule of thumb. One of the things I talk about, and I people don't always understand this, but it's called the personality of money. And I guess I've looked, because I've been to I've talked a little bit about this. So, Tiffany, how do you understand how do you manage the personality of money? How do you give money personality? I mean, it's just money, right? That control can I think one of the pieces I can recommend is to be proactive, as I mentioned earlier, and not reactive. When you need to take draws, if you're an LLC and you need to pay yourself, it helps if you pay yourself on a regular structured basis. Yeah, as if that were a paycheck. It becomes more of a challenge when you take $1,000 One week and then $250.02 days later because you forgot you had this other bill personally that you owe I think making sure that you're very proactive and planning and thinking ahead helps when it comes to that how the flow of the cash and and that personality of money that's when you think about personality in my my talks Yeah, you know, I can notice that we've been through different kind of seasons of cash and data and understanding of money understanding of ratios and you know, if if you're not paying attention to it, it will kind of run off and talk on its own so I think I think kind of going back to Ken's favorite statement, you know, cash is king and that's the most important aspects in my opinion. I just saw a question come through you guys mind if I pop it up. Now let's see if I can. Here we go. So really enjoying all this I own two businesses one is tracked 100% Because the way company bills monthly first of the month so the other businesses cash for service can finish reading it here so she asked cash in hand versus claiming everything. I think I think this question really gets to the gist of differentiating personal and separate businesses and kind of what you're doing there to both maximize your tax benefit, but also kind of keep track of everything. Accountant? Well, when you've got multiple businesses, I'm gonna throw in there with that recommendation one more time is to make sure that you've got multiple bank accounts, don't try to do one bank account both businesses out of one bank account. And then go ahead and engage somebody that can keep your books, because at that point, at the time when you're doing, too, when you're an owner to businesses, you have to have time to to excel at those businesses. If you're self employed, I don't find it likely that you would have time to sit and focus regularly and make any sense at all of what your books are telling you. So find a bookkeeper find an accountant that can help the partner with you know, daily, weekly monthly, helping you understand what your business is, what the successes are, and then what are your opportunities for growth? I think, I don't know if this is really what the question is, but it reminded me and maybe it is, before I jumped into starting my business, I had some experience kind of seeing family and friends growing up running their business. And one thing that was always kind of in the back of my mind, I heard it all the time. Well, it's a business expense, expense, expense it, no show loss, things like that. But after starting my business and being self employed for a few years, and then applying for a mortgage, and realizing that my first three years of business, had a lot of expenses and didn't show real profit, even though we were making money. How do you advise people typically to kind of balance that, you know, investing in their business, but maybe not spending all of your annual profits in swag to show a loss, kind of you encounter that and people who want to do that and not think about the long term showing of their profits. I'll just jump in and say, I pretty black and white about this probably doesn't surprise anybody. But if you take something in for a service that you're offering, or product or selling, that's, that's income. And that income is taxable. Now, you can take expenses against that. But I can remember what I first bought my business, there were things that the IRS would allow you to take that later on in 10 years or so they changed the rules. You couldn't take it, I could take until I was honored. Yeah, so if, and I've ever been to an IRS audit, but I've been through state sales, tax audits, and some of those kinds of things. And so if you want to have peace of mind, that, you know, when you get audited, that everything's gonna be fine. You need to claim all your income, whether it's cash or cheques. And then you need to take and take the appropriate expenses. There are ways the IRS could look at how you live and what you claim as income. And recognize that that doesn't necessarily reconcile. So. That's my view, it has always been my view. And that's what I've always done. That's who I am as a business person. But it's hard. So, so let me let me rephrase the question, though. If you've made a lot of money, and there's there's eligible business expenses you could spend in December, do you think there's a benefit to spending a lot of money to have less profit? Or do you think cash is king in tents, and you made profit? So pay your taxes on it and have that cash on hand and not just blow it away to pay less in taxes? You said eligible expense? Yeah. So there's a I'll give you an example, a few years, a number of years ago, there was a time where you could accelerate depreciation. And we may be talking too much counted here. I don't know. But you instead of tape, buying a car or a truck and expensing there over five years, which is what the government requires you to do at that point. You could this particular year tax year you could buy the truck and expense all of it. Well, if you were showing a large profit You wanted to buy that truck and you had the cash or you could borrow it, you could go ahead and buy that truck and expense the whole thing and not depreciate, which would cut down on your profits. The other way that you do that, or can do that is, and some people do this, that they don't take physical inventory, they guess that their inventory based on how much taxes they want to pay, well, that that's a short term way to do that. But anytime you have an eligible legal deduction, and you can do that, yes, you can do that. And you should do that. Yeah. I definitely want to weigh in on this. I mean, yeah, I agree. Can if it's eligible, if it's eligible in the IRA? Eyes of the IRS? Absolutely. Especially if it's an asset that your business needs to grow? I don't necessarily look at it, though, as avoiding taxes, rather than just paying them later. As a result of that purchase? Yeah. I think I used to be hyper focused on buy, you know, maybe it was, you know, sweaters to give to the clients kind of an eligible marketing expense. Yeah, exactly. With the logo. Yeah. And I used to, I used to think, you know, I'll do that the end of the year. But anymore, I really just like having the cash, if that means I have a more profitable and I pay a little bit more taxes, I want that cash for the next year, versus, you know, spending on things that are eligible, but not really necessary. I think I've kind of moved beyond that at this point. So, you know, we were on a fiscal year, rather than a calendar year. So you can't really do that much anymore, I think, if I'm correct about that, but so our year ended right after May, which was our best month. So we ended up with about six months, and six months, even income, which is not always the case in the business. But there was there was, there's nothing wrong with delaying a sale, or recording an account for a week or two, to put the revenue elsewhere, just like it wouldn't be uncommon for us to go ahead and buy something that we might be able to buy now. To get the expanse to minimize what we had to pay in taxes. That's perfectly legal. It's perfectly appropriate. But do I understand the question here is is the money that I'm taking this 100% cash out? How do I account for that? My answer to that is as you account for that, just like you would account for any revenue, and it's taxable. Yeah. I think I understand that question. Yeah, I agree with that. So thanks for the question. Yeah. And there's I know, we've grown we're kind of running into our time limit now. But we've had quite a few more viewers pop in. So if anyone does have a question, go ahead and submit that before we wrap up, is back on track? Yeah, I'd like to talk a minute, though, about this personality money thing, because I think it's just so important. You know, it's the dedicated use of monetary assets. And so the savings accounts we've all talked about here. So you have an account, that's a payroll account, you have an account, that's a savings account for asset purchases, you have an account that's set aside for something else for a particular I don't care a Christmas bonus, I don't care, whatever it might be, or you have something set aside for, for inventory, expansion, whatever you want. And however you want that money to work for you, you make that money work, how you want it to work to help your business grow. And, and too often, we don't see it that way. It's just this big hunk in our checking account. You have as many accounts as you need to be able to set money aside so that when you get ready to do something, you don't have to borrow all of it. You may have to borrow a majority of it, but you don't have to borrow all of it. As Stephanie said, it predicts against loss and emergency, it gives you assets for your business to grow, gives you a revenue stream to pay certain monthly operating expenses. And it's also the ability to pay cash for something and not borrow. And that's something sometimes we don't think enough about is that discipline and patience to save money for future expense. And it is a discipline to be able to do that. Think about think about that is just not a piece of paper. Yeah, give it a personality that that is like those three jars. She used to keep, you know, a dime here a dime here and 25 cents here and they all went to search Two things. Same thing. Exactly the same thing. Yeah. Absolutely. Can what else? What else you're gonna cover? Wait before we start slowly wrapping up? You asked me that. Yeah. You're the star. All I want to talk, I think. Let's talk about next week we're going to talk about managing employees. That's that's always an interesting subject. Yeah, it is something I'm learning about rapidly. I'll be I'll be listening to you more than anything next week. You won't be listening to you more than anything. Yeah. I don't know about that. I find it so interesting to learn about what motivates different personalities. Oh, I'll be definitely tuning in next week. Oh, boy. I mean, maybe you can share what motivates you next week, if you want to join us again? So yeah, I so I don't know whether it's still available or not. But when I was teaching, I used to use a thing called Kingdom ality calm. Okay. And it's a personality test based on for guild halls in medieval Europe. Oh, and it's fun to exercise is not scientific. But you can find out whether you're a white knight or Black Knight, whether you're a benevolent ruler, or whether you are a shopkeeper or a doctor, and it's all divided into quadrants, and it tells you what your profile is. And it's kind of an interesting thing. It's fun exercise. That That sounds awesome. Can if you want to send it to me, remind me after I'll put that in the notes for anyone viewing this after, I'll check and see if it's still available. It's been a while since I've worked, but there were 13 million people taking it one time. Wow. Wow. That's incredible. Well, I can I think I'm gonna go ahead and shut down your stream and let Tiffany kind of close out in her. And is there anything else you want to share? Before we close out today? I've just enjoyed having Tiffany. I will tell you how long I don't have any but it's a long time. And she's just a great person. And his I recommend her as an accountant and a human resource person because I've worked with her before. So can I stay on and listen to Tiffany? Yeah, of course you can't, I won't. I won't shut I don't want to be I want to make sure she doesn't say something. Yeah. Cancer rebuttal. If you need. Tiffany, the show is yours. All I really want to say is I'm so grateful for the chance to partner with both of you, and to be here and speak on a little bit about what I see in my daily life. And please send me an email anytime Tiffany at Deer accounting.com. Perfect. Well, thank you both. For anyone who's listening live or finding this shortly after this recording will be available on YouTube. The channel is called Small Business Big Ideas. And so also be available on any podcasting system that you use with the same title. And feel free to join our Facebook group for small business owners and entrepreneurs. Also the same title, Small Business Big Ideas on Facebook. So yeah, so we're going to be coming back maybe next week. I don't think we have a date set. But we'll make sure we post that. Talking about employees. And maybe we'll see Tiffany back again. We'll have to find out. Well, with human resource background, she won't be able to tell us a lot. I would think so. Yeah, I think so. Maybe I'll thank you all. Thank you for the good questions. And thank you all for watching.